SUMMARY KEYWORDS
identity, lgbtq, queer, people, spaces, south asian, feel, community, gender, queerness, growing, non binary, Chicago, acceptance, sexuality, history, research, heteronormative, interested, context

00:00
just some basic background information. So what's your name? And pronouns?

00:03
Yes, I use they/them pronouns.

00:05
Awesome. And so do you identify as part of the LGBTQ I community?

00:10
Yeah, I am queer and non binary. And I'm also part of the queer South Asian community because I am from Pakistan. I was born and raised there. And came to the US back in 2013. For school. Awesome.

00:30
Perfect. So we can that segues right into the first section about family background. And so you said you grew up in Pakistan? What are some things that you remember about it? Could you tell me more about that?

00:41
Yeah, um, it was overall a. I mean, yeah, I spent like 18 to 19 years of my life there. And we, my family, we are part of a smaller religious community, back and Vox on as well. The Smiley community makes my Muslim community and so we were really connected to, to that, to all the sort of like happenings of the Ismaili Muslim community and visited went for like pairs and religious education every day, in the evening. And that was a very integral part of my sort of upbringing. Beyond that, I feel like overall, I had a good childhood, in that. I had a lot of friends that I was close to, but also had, you know, like, ups and downs, like most people do. But one of the things that I really miss about Karachi, which is where I grew up, is the food. And, you know, obviously, we're so grateful to have entire area of Westridge slash divan in our city, but it just doesn't hit the same. So those first few things that come off the top

02:28
of my head, okay, awesome. Do you remember anything that you wanted to be when you grew up? Or any dreams that you had?

02:35
Yeah, I feel like I was a very ambitious child. I think in first grade, I wanted to be an artist, an astronaut, and a teacher, which is really interesting to think about now. But yeah, I think that those things changed over time as well. I know at one point, I wanted to go into history and become an archaeologist. I'm just kind of different from where I ended up not very different from where I ended up.

03:10
Do you remember what inspired those dreams?

03:13
I think just interest in I guess specifically thinking about like, archaeology, I think an interest in the way, our history, our past shapes, our present, and just the complexity of all of those things. I feel like also the role of culture, in defining what, you know, again, thinking about like, queerness, but like, also what how culture defined as normal or normative. So I feel like those were some ideas that I was, I would say already, not explicitly, but in the back of my mind, I was starting to think about in like, fifth sixth grade when I was very interested in history and archaeology.

04:14
Yeah, for sure. Um, I know for me, I used to go to my friend's houses and play with their Barbie dolls, which was kind of an early sign of, you know, my later orientation. Were there any early signs for you?

04:27
Yeah, I feel like for me, a lot of that came up during adolescence, um, and, you know, having, I went to, I went for 11 years of my schooling, I went to an all girls school. And I feel like there were certainly, you know, pressures that I had on my classmates or or other folks that I didn't have the language at that point to kind of call what it is, or think or conceptualize it as queerness. But in retrospect, those were certainly things that were some of my early signs. In addition to that, I feel like with with gender related stuff, I was always uncomfortable with the, with the beauty standards of what it meant to, you know, be socialized as a girl. And I think that I never thought that I fit in those boxes, and definitely tried to, to sort of, you know, get through the time. But it always felt uncomfortable to to occupy that space or to occupy those gender roles.

06:11
Yeah, for sure. I'm curious about like that emerging expression. Did you experience any acceptance or rejection with family members?

06:21
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I would say that, I, it wasn't something that they commented on. But also, I feel like a lot of what I was experiencing, I sort of kept it to myself, I didn't share it. So yeah, I wouldn't say that there was like, the explicit direct or indirect acceptance. But obviously, the culture and the norms of where I grew up are very, says heteronormative. And so there was certainly, you know, messaging from the larger community or the larger culture, about what, what is sort of, you know, the path, you know, for a person in this heteronormative context. So, um, so I feel like through through those messaging, I feel like I got a pretty clear sense of what, you know, was, quote, unquote, allowed or not allowed? So, yeah, I would say more of the implicit messaging as opposed to any explicit acceptance or reduction.

07:54
Gotcha. Yeah, I can relate to that also. So do you think we talked a little bit about challenges that ethnic background presents? Do you think it presented any unique opportunities as well?

08:06
Um, you mean, the You mean, like South Asian identity? Yeah. Yeah, I feel like so I would say that I really came into my identity during college years, my first few years in Chicago. And one of the, one of the big sort of ways that I was able to ground my identity in is the history of South Asia. And through my studies, I was able to learn about, you know, pre colonial histories of gender and sexuality in South Asia, and pre colonial sexualities and gender identities in other post colonial countries as well. And so, it was really important for me to, to learn about that and to sort of ground my identity in sort of this longer lineage or longer history of, you know, non normative genders and sexualities, because that is something that has existed in our parts of the world for several years for centuries. And the fact that that isn't the case right now has more to do with colonialism and violence of colonialism and then then it inherently being something that is accepted or rejected. Because in my reading, I I learned that you know, diverse gender and sexualities were just part of the sort of every day life in South Asia in pre colonial times. So, I feel like that, for me was the biggest sort of opportunity to say that I was really able to grab my identity in sort of this historical context as well and also find strength in that.

10:29
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, I know, in my age group, I think that the, the general population of you know, gay men, you know, young gay people, they're mostly white, right? And so obviously, it's a bit, you know, subversive or different to be, you know, a brown kid in that community. Do you ever recall any times that you experienced any rejection or discomfort or anything around just being a brown, queer person in generally like white space?

11:02
Yeah, yeah, I would say that, I was certainly dealing with a lot of things that I can only describe as a culture shock. First, you know, came to the US back in 2013. And just learning about the dynamics of racism and other sorts of isms, in the US context, and very quickly felt very, you know, alienated even in a sort of just general context, I feel like I was very quickly, you know, seen as someone who was not, quote, unquote, from here, and I didn't want to be, you know, from here, whatever that means, either. Like that is a part of my identity that I'm, that I hold close to my heart that I'm proud of. So when I started to sort of occupy more LGBTQ spaces, more queer, and non binary and trans spaces, it was very evident very quickly, to me how, you know, some parts of my identity just wouldn't be accepted in those spaces that are predominantly white. And so in college, I took extra effort to find other LGBTQ people of color and to build more community with them, and to do my best to avoid white queer spaces as much as possible because, like, you're saying, I didn't feel fully accepted or part of it. In those spaces, or you know, even the way that, like, for instance, I mentioned, like, I contextualize my queerness in the context of history in the context of like, colonialism, but those weren't really conversations that would happen in white queer spaces. So I, I realized that those those really weren't spaces for me.

13:29
Yeah, I can certainly relate to that. And I'm curious about, like, within the South Asian community, did you experience the same alienation in South Asian spaces?

13:39
Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah, goes without saying, um, so. I, when I first came to the US, I was for most of my college, actually, I was living with my family here, um, my extended family here, which was interesting, to say the least. And then I was living with my younger sibling who also come here for school who's also queer and non binary. And now I live with my partner and like, in the context of my family, and then in the context of also be part of the smiley Muslim community in Chicago, um, there. Again, like it was that those like implicit messages and those implicit like, looks or stares or you know, awkwardness and social interactions that really kind of brought that out very exposed. Certainly for me, as I was a, you know, inhabiting my queer and non binary identity more and more. On the other hand, I was able to connect with some queer smiling list loans, that are also part of the community. And that was really helpful for me, in sort of, you know, talking about the challenges of navigating those spaces, and navigating those faith based communities. And so, um, that was helpful. And so, yeah, mixed bag.

15:44
Yeah. Um, do you think that your gender and sexuality have caused any, you know, beliefs with religion to evolve or change in any way?

15:56
I would say so. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm still in that. Figuring out my relationship with religion and faith phase of my life. Yeah. But it certainly changed. I don't think that it has broken any bridges, with or my ties with my faith based community completely, but it certainly has changed. How much I interact with the spaces when or when, when I decide to, you know, go to my faith based spaces, or not, how much do we engage? I feel like on a core, like internally, though, I do feel that in the sort of, like framework of the religion, there is, you know, a acceptance and understanding of queerness and LGBTQ identities, but I don't think that that is something that the people who are following those religions or those faith or are part of those faith based communities are ready to acknowledge, are ready to understand. So it's kind of like a dissonance of, you know, feeling connected to the religion on a core belief system basis, but not feeling that connected with the people. Necessarily,

17:43
yeah, and I'm a Hindu, and I can totally see that happening, you know, in real life, and those temple spaces, there's, you know, evidence where, you know, there's queer deities, and, you know, fluid data. And then, you know, people are so reluctant, you know, sexuality at all, right? Yeah. Yeah, definitely not. Most Amazing. Yeah. So I want to circle back a little bit to your coming out. So when were you first aware of your sexual identity? Besides, you know, growing up in an all girls school?

18:22
Yeah, I would say it became a lot like those thoughts and those feelings, were there in the back of my mind, but like I said, I didn't really have language or words to sort of describe it, or even like a deeper understanding of gender and sexuality. So I feel like for me, a lot of that happened in college years where I did I feel, you know, more. I felt that I had access to more information, access to more people access to, you know, just explore things more. And so I feel like that is when I really came into my identity. Um, I am, I'm also not necessarily out to my parents or my larger family. And I also think that there's like problems with the sort of language or notion of coming out as well. Because it's, it's tricky, especially in the South Asian context, because like, I exist the way I do I, you know, present the way I do in front of family, both here and back home. And a lot of the times like I would, like get, like, hand me down like I quote unquote, traditionally men's shirts, like from family, and I wear them, and they complimented me on how good those things look on me. But at the same time, there isn't like, any explicit acknowledgement, you know, my non binary identity, for instance, or the way I present my gender. So it's complicated. Yeah. And that's something that I am, like, personally still working towards, in my life and in but with my family to to be more assertive and be more upfront about it. But, again, I do think that those things are more complicated and nuanced than, you know, pop culture would lead us to believe. So yeah,

20:50
yeah. And I think in like a South Asian family, it's different. Because, you know, there's collectivism throughout the culture, there's that emphasis on like, community and obviously, saying something. Yeah. So coming out, doesn't really posit the same, you know, opportunity that it would for, you know, white family or any other culture that doesn't really, you know, value togetherness as much as you know, my family would or another South Asian family would.

21:18
Right, exactly. And I also think that acceptance looks very different. Yeah. Because, I mean, I don't know about you, but like, every time I had a fight with my mom, like growing up, like, she wasn't going to say that she's sorry, but instead she was. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I feel like but that was their way of saying like, I'm sorry, like, I'm trying to build reconnect with you, and Bill Reid bridge, our ties. And so I'm like, acceptance also, it's like, different, it looks different. So yeah,

21:54
yeah. Yeah. Do you think that your gender and sexuality evolved together? Or like separately with was there any, you know, like, mingling between those two identities as you grew up?

22:06
Yeah. That's a good question. I am not sure. Um, I feel like yeah, I'm not sure. I'm there. I feel like there are certain parts of my life where they happened together, but then certain parts of my life where I feel like one evolved more than the, like, more quicker, I guess, than the other or more labels. So yeah, I feel like yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah,

22:41
I know, for me that, like, I went from, you know, straight to bi to gay pretty quickly in, you know, seventh and eighth grade, and then in high school, but I was always pretty secure in like, seriousness. So I think that, like, it's definitely an interesting thing to think about, especially with like, South Asian, like expression and those norms. Yeah, because, like, you know, I worn like, nail polish and stuff like that. And obviously, that hasn't really, you know, rolled over well, within my family and things like that. Especially with my dad. And so like, you know, it's definitely, like a weird, contextual thing to with expression of gender. So yeah, it's definitely a tricky.

23:28
Yeah. And I feel Yeah, I feel like for me, those timelines certainly overlapped. Where I can think of like, like, resistance to wearing like, certain clothes. or wanting, like, access to more like men's group does or like, stuff like that. But then, yeah, I, I think it's more there's more overlap. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a clear answer.

23:56
Yeah, we're just totally fine. So I want to segue a little towards education. I know you talked a lot about that, and the doors that it's open for you. I'm curious about how supportive your school community was. Because I know for me growing up, I've been told that, you know, it's weird to be Indian and gay, like that's unexpected, or things like that, that like, I kind of subvert people's, you know, expectations. Yeah. Did you experience that same thing, or was it supportive? Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

24:26
Yeah, I know, you're talking about like high school or like college.

24:31
high school college. Yeah. Just any educational career?

24:34
Yeah, so I feel like pre college like high school like before that I was there wasn't acceptance. queer identities and because also I attended like all of pre college all of my pre college education was back in Buxton. And so So yeah, I would say no exceptions for those years of my life. Um, but in college, I went to DePaul for my undergrad. And I would say that the Paul has a really like, Great queer community. And even though it's a Catholic, they do have, you know, supports for queer students in the school and a lot of programming focus on LGBTQ identities and LGBTQ students as well. That's actually how my partner and I met, because we were both involved in like, doing like social justice related programming in at Paul, and because there is that there's a few sort of dedicated centers doing that type of work, like you'd like to call that was more accepted. And there were sort of like a bit of infrastructures built in to support that, um, and now I am back in school after a bit of a break at Northwestern pursuing my PhD. And I would say that, again, like, for the most part, people are, well, it's a it's a mixed bag, because in my program, like, for instance, there's professors who are really old, and are more resistant in their ways. But also, it's interesting, because obviously, like every, for every class, I introduce myself, I share my pronouns. And I thought that coming in, that would be more of a, at least at Northwestern, that would be more of a standard practice for everyone to share their name and pronouns when introducing themselves in class. But that hasn't been the case. And that's been really surprising, and maybe more surprising for me, because for the, for the five, four to five years before, starting at Northwestern, I was working at Lurie Children's Hospital, in their gender clinic, slash the department that does all the LGBTQ research. And so you know, names and pronouns were just standard practice, it was more of kind of like a, this is strange, but I guess every time like I professors still sort of trip up on my pronouns have misprint on me, and emails and stuff. And then also followed up to apologize, which has been nice to see. But for instance, in like, classes, and we're talking about gender, for instance, and like, you know, a lot of times they do still, you know, false to male and female. Or it's more of like a guess I'm trying to say is, sometimes it feels like some of those superficial gestures of like, pronouns in your bio has not translated into like, faction, and like integral like, I'm going to change my, my syllabus to be more inclusive of LGBTQ identities, or I'm going to bring in cases to discuss of patients with LGBTQ identities. Um, so in that way, it has been different, for sure. And it's surprising, also,

29:05
yeah, yeah, for sure. And I do think that's something that like, I personally have experienced in high school as well. I know my sex ed teacher. Not only was that curriculum horrendous, and so heteronormative It was insane. We talked about sex for two days, I think, the whole semester and none of it you know. But she actually said every single slur like in one class, just like listing them out, and I'm not really sure what the point of that was, but I do think yeah, I was like, okay. Yeah, curricula, definitely damage. Repair in some places, especially, you know, in Yeah, it's definitely not. Not the best experience though. had some curious about your clinical psychology, your PhD. So how is your both your South Asian and LGBTQ plus identity influenced that realm of your career in research? Because I've, so I plan to major in public policy and public health and things like that, like, that's my interest. And I actually have read your research before, before this meeting on fertility preservation, which is really cool to me. Yeah. So you have some really interesting work. And I'm curious about Yeah, how those identities kind of pushed you to study the things that you are and influenced that passion and realm of work?

30:42
Yeah, totally. Um, I would say that I first became interested in psychology and the field of mental health. Back in Pakistan, actually. Back home, I was in the Oh level, a level system that Cambridge University of Cambridge system. And so during my A levels, I took a, like equivalent of my psychology class back in a levels would be like an AP psych course. So when I took that, um, that got me really interested in thinking about mental health also, because back home, there is such a stigma around mental health. And access to mental health is only now becoming a thing. And also mostly for like, middle class or upper middle class or rich families. And so. So that got me really interested in, you know, looking at mental health, and I wanted to study psychology in undergrad. And through undergrad, I became more interested in research, but specifically research with communities of color, because, again, there is such a stigma around mental health and mental health care access, in communities of color here. And so back in college, I was working on a lab that focused on school based interventions for depression, anxiety for Latino children, in different neighborhoods in Chicago. And so and so I feel like for me, like I was trying to make connections with my South Asian identity there as well, because I know that there is such a stigma around mental health in South Asian communities as well. And so I feel like my post college experience at Lurie really sort of like solidified my interest in pursuing a research career in working was LGBTQ research and clinical site career with LGBTQ identities. So I would say right now, my research interests are in working with transgender non conforming and non binary populations, specifically populations of color, focusing on resilience factors, things like family support, things like community connections, things like, you know, friendships and romantic connections, things that, you know, we could think of that would support them in their identities and in their, you know, gender journeys. And so I feel like my own experiences as a South Asian, queer, non binary person, and also through my work experiences working at all and then at Lurie, a really kind of solidified that for me. Something that I want to pursue, because I think, yeah, ultimately, we know that even though in this first world country of us the outcomes and access for people like us are really poor. Yeah. And so that's, that's a that's an area that I want to focus on.

34:31
Yeah, I know, for me that, like I do research on the side as well. And I'm right now studying. I'm doing a content analysis on news coverage of the monkeypox outbreak. And I know that

34:46
it's timely. So there's so much there. Yeah,

34:50
exactly. And I'm like interested in stigma communication, and especially since it's definitely a big thing within the have men who have sex with men community and queer community as a large I think that that element of my identity definitely drives my research. And I think that personally empowers me. Do you feel that your research empowers you in any way?

35:13
100% Yeah, I feel like, I'm, I feel like, it's also like, you know, a way that so many, there's a lot of thoughts in my head right now, sort of, like sift through. But, yeah, I think ultimately, like, supporting my community, through this, through these efforts is really important. Because also thinking about the history of research, like, our people, like, you know, our communities have been invisible eyes and have been silenced, or, like, researched upon or not researched with the or, you know, there's so much mistrust in, you know, the, the medical system is well, from folks of color in the US. And so, it certainly feels, you know, like, in a small way, like, you know, giving back, or like trying to, like change things, or trying to, not that research ultimately leads to changing things, but in some way, at least, like, creating knowledge, have focused on our people. Because, again, like, even in terms of like thinking about documentation of, you know, what our communities go through has not really happened in the history of, you know, human mind. So, in that way, it feels really important.

36:56
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Awesome. So thank you for telling me about that. That's really glad that I can relate to that. And I definitely do want to go into like undergraduate research, at least, while I'm doing that. So I do think that I will enjoy continuing to empower myself through the lens of my research. So I want to segue to Chicago specifically, and what you feel your places within and how Chicago has, you know, generally just been so to preface, do you know any organizations that support LGBTQ plus South Asians?

37:33
Yes. Um, in in the city of Chicago? Yeah. So

37:38
Chicago based? Yeah.

37:39
So um, the biggest one that comes to mind, that is specifically for queer South Asians. I know that there's a lot of queer South Asian people working at the Indo American Center. But I would say that my, the biggest way that I was able to connect with other queer South Asian folks in the Chicagoland area was through TracPhone. So, yeah, and then there's other queer organizations that are focused on Asian Americans or Asian folks in general, like, eye to eye, or there's another one that I'm forgetting. But those are the ones that I can think of. Right?

38:32
Yeah, yeah. And I do I have, I'm in the Trichome, like, Facebook group and things like that. So I'm definitely yeah, I do think that is a very amazing organization. And the history of the organization is really rich, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I do want to actually speak to the people who run it. So I'm excited for that.

38:51
Already have that connection mean? Or do you need help making that connection? I

38:55
actually would love help making that connection. I was gonna I have a Facebook post for the group chat drafted that I have to send to, I don't know who the admin are think. I have to check on that. But I would, I will probably send a message in there. But yeah, I would also love any help.

39:14
Yeah, I, I'm not sure if the two people that I'm thinking of are good friends of mine, if they're currently on the board of troponin, or but they've certainly been on the board of going in the past. But let me see if there's something that they'll be interested in. I offered them the email that you sent me, which has all the sort of like contextual information of what you're trying to do. Yeah. And see if they're interested in that, then if so I'll make the email connection that way. Yeah.

39:43
Thank you so much. Of course. Yeah. And so back to like Chicago. So what are some places of notable interest or value to you as both or separately like an LGBTQ plus person or, you know, like a queer non binary person or a South Asian And, like, Do you have any locations that, you know, speak to your identity? Or just have some sort of value? Because of that?

40:08
Yeah. That's a really good question. Um, I would say that the first, you know, thing that comes to mind is the, like, are the sort of jackhole parties that through Gon, puts on once a quarter, or, like, every three months or something. I am not big into the nightlife culture of Chicago, but I do really enjoy the kind of space that Joe is able to create. Because, you know, it is, you know, a space that features, you know, South Asian, drag artists and performances, and there is, you know, the music that they play is more familiar to me and is reminiscent of, you know, my childhood is, well, they have, they play a lot of Bollywood, South Asian, but not only Bollywood music, but other music from South Asia as well. And so I would say that those aren't, those aren't necessarily like places or like locations that are like, set in stone, but I would say that, what whenever those things are put together, like those are really, they hold a special place in my heart. So that is the first one. I'm trying to think of other sort of, like places or locations that feel like special to me, based on my LGBTQ identities. Um, I can't think of something else right now. But I think more will come up.

42:13
Yeah. Which is totally okay. I know, for me, I'd say, for some reason, like, the Art Institute, like is definitely a place where I was able to explore different cultural ways of expressing concepts like that, like gender and sexuality. And I think that was, through being through art was interesting to me. And it was a very visual way of affirming my, you know, if I was having identity threat or anything like that growing up, like I was able to see, you know, successful, or like visual depictions of, you know, the very things that I was grappling with. So I think that was definitely like developmentally. So an important place to me.

42:59
I shouldn't say museums, is well, I feel like I've more just because of my proximity to it. I feel like I've been more to the NCAA the museum. Yeah, they're places. So I feel like, that's another place that I would pick bouncing off of what you've shared with us again. Yeah, like similar feelings around art.

43:23
Yeah. And then you I noticed you talked about, like, a sense of acceptance with J. hoes and things like that. How do you feel about your sense of belonging in Chicago? Do you feel accepted or free? Or what are your feelings? Related to Chicago in that realm?

43:39
Yeah. I feel like, um, I think it's more complicated than a yes or no answer, because it's more about the spaces within the city. And I'm occupying because like, for instance, if I'm going to help Boys Town, I don't necessarily feel accepted, even though I'm supposed to be. Because I feel like those are more white queer spaces.

44:13
I used to work there. And so I remember every Friday and Saturday, I'd see all the lines outside all the clubs and it'd be like, white, white, white, white, white. I feel like an outsider. So yeah,

44:28
especially there's a really fraught history with the bars and the clubs in Boys Town, where they've like, actively enacted racist policies of like, you know, banning, like rap music or banning, like, you know, like, queer houseless people from like, you know, being out on the streets and, you know, setting up their stuff there. Again, those folks tend to be folks of color as well because out He homelessness affects the most. But yeah, I certainly wouldn't feel that way. I wouldn't feel accepted in Boystown. For instance. I think again, like mixed feelings about when I go to, you know, the, like, my faith base like prayer places, because again, although I like have some, like queer connections there, for the most part that isn't most people there. I would say I used to live on demand for a hot year. And now I live, I live basically, again, like, I go there frequently for like groceries and stuff like that. But again, it is a space that is that we'd always that I would always get like stares or, like looks from people I'm there for, you know, the way I present, et cetera. So, um, but again, like, their spaces like Jehol, or spaces, like, you know, like, my previous workplace spaces, like, you know, it's jam, and, and other places where we know that queer LGBTQ people are there and like, that kind of work is happening there. So that feels, you know, a little bit more accepting than some of the other spaces. So I guess in the whole context of the city, it's, it's a mixed bag again.

46:43
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I definitely do see that as well. I want to segue to role models. And just a couple of questions about that. So did you remember having any role models when you were younger? And did they change when you grew up? And like, were they you know, personal acquaintances? or teachers or adults or even famous people?

47:07
Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I don't think I right now, I'm sure I had role models, like, remember who they were, right now. Um, but I would say right now, it's hard to find, you know, role models that match your identities in like pop culture or like, like, famous people. And so I feel like, a lot of my role models would be the would be my friends, or would be, you know, people that I love around me, who do share my identities. Obviously, there has been a more of a rise in media representation around, you know, LGBTQ folks of color, LGBTQ is about South Asian folks. And that has been refreshing to see. And also problematizing, what representation really means or how far it goes. I think, for me, like, I try to hold both of those things together. So um, yeah, again, not a very clear answer to your question, who

48:42
was perfect? Do you think that it would have been any different growing up with, you know, adequate media representation or role models that, you know, looked like you or, you know, had the same problems or, you know, different, you know, situations growing up?

49:01
100 Resign? Yes. Um, yeah, I think it would have certainly made a big difference. And to be able to kind of identify someone, as you know, who you can not even just look up, but just have a sense of like, oh, this is one way that my future could look like and just have that like, longer term like, projection. So, yes, for sure.

49:34
Awesome. Yeah. I totally agree. I'm definitely glad to be seeing just a little bit more representation. I do think that definitely there are some problematic ways of doing that. Especially in you know, movies these days. I definitely do have some very bewildered stares when I'm watching things but yeah, I do think it's a probably the start of a good trend. Hopefully it will See? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so moving on to like one of the last sections, like just generally general feelings about, you know, identity or orientation. Did you ever feel? What did you like? Have you felt about your identity or orientation? I know, personally, I felt a lot of things that have been influenced by my family. So a lot of like, shame. I've had to suppress a lot of my, you know, identity. And I felt, I think, limited at times because of it. But I've also felt really unique. Like, could you describe some of the, you know, what ways you felt about those things?

50:39
Yeah, yeah, I would say similar, similar, in not a lot of emotions and a lot of feelings, for sure. I would also say, you know, shame and worry, for me. And just also like, growing up, like, also confusion, because of that, like dissonance of, you know, some of the feelings that I was having, versus like, what the messages were, that I was getting from larger society. I would also say, like, more and more now is a sense of, like, more, like control, yeah. Or, like, in my control, I mean, like, more control of what happens in my life and being able to kind of dictate that which has also been, like, which have also brought about a sense of like, happiness and joy. And also, I feel like, I'm relief when I found, you know, other queer and non binary South Asian people. So, yeah, it's been, it's been a lot of emotions is well,

52:11
yeah, for sure. And I want to like segue off of this happier emotions I have pride is a big part of our community, what are some things that make you feel proud?

52:21
Yeah. I think that other, being in community with other LGBTQ folks of color, and the ways in which, you know, people are constantly like, resisting the larger systems of oppression, and finding joy in everyday lives. I feel like that makes me really proud of to be able to, like, witness those moments and participate in those moments. I would say, on an individual level, just thinking about, like, you know, in my own journey, and in my own identities, like how far I've come and how much I have navigated, and how I have been able to resolve some questions with either answers or with more questions. So on an on a more individual level, that is also something that I'm proud of, of myself.

53:49
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that, you know, it's amazing to feel proud about yourself. And I think that that's definitely something that has helped me growing up, just like being proud of me thriving, despite, you know, whatever situations I would have been in, it's definitely something that has pushed me going or kept me going and pushed me forward. Totally. Awesome. So I think that is all that I had. I did have one last question. But were there any other topics that you wanted to cover?

54:19
Nothing that comes to mind, but just wanted to say that, like, this is such a cool project, and I'm so glad that you're doing this. And, you know, for you to be like, you know, a rising senior right now in school and working on this really awesome, really cool project is it just made me really happy when I read your email and learned about this project. And so just wanting to voice that is Yeah. Yeah, like all the best wishes to you for for the success of this project.

54:58
Yeah. Thank you. It's Give me really excited to speak to so many people and do this work. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have, you know, thought I'd be doing this maybe a month ago, but I'm very glad to be doing this. It's exciting to see so many people that, you know, look like me and have the same experiences, because I have not had the opportunity to do that all very affirming also. So one last question. So if you can give any advice or say any words of any kind to young South Asian, LGBTQ plus people, what would you say?

55:34
Ah, that's always the hard one. Yeah. I guess on a basic level, just that there is more of us out there than you know, um, and that, you know, we have a really bridge history that we can look upon and also learn from and also find strength in and that, you know, queerness, or a LGBTQ identities are not new. They've been, they've been around, especially in our parts of the world for a long, long time. And that, I hope that that is something that can be reassuring to people.

56:34
Yeah, that is awesome advice. And I definitely do think that the historical lens that, you know, is present with queerness in India, and around that region is definitely something that I find to be a unique thing about, you know, being South Asian, it's, it's very ingrained in, you know, religious texts and the culture. And I think that makes me really happy to see that and, you know, just around me, and historically,

57:07
absolutely.

57:08
So, that was all the questions I had was, did you have any more for me about anything at all? Um, nothing that

57:16
I could think of. But yeah, we'd love to be kept in the loop about how this project goes and what comes out of it. So

57:25
keep me posted. Of course. Well, thank you so much for joining us interview. It was a joy to interview and hear about all your stories, and I will definitely keep you in the loop there. So I think that was everything I had. Awesome. Cool. Um, it was great chatting with you as well. Thank you again for reaching out.