SAADA

Transcribed by: Tsering Bista

Indrani Saha (IS) 0:00
This is Indrani Saha from the South Asian American Digital Archives. Today I will be interviewing photographer and painter KV Rathnam in a studio in St. Joseph, Michigan. Rathnam is originally from India and later moved to the United States. OK, so we're just going to begin by asking you a little bit about yourself. So can you tell me a little bit about your childhood and where you grew up and what your family life was like?

K.V. Rathnam (KVR) 0:26
I'm from India, southern part of India. It's called Nuzvidu, is the town that I grew up. And actually, it's in Andhra Pradesh. It's about 30 kilometers, I think about 30 kilometers from Vijayawada, down south. And that's where I'm from, grew up there. And then all my high school I studied in West Godavari in Narsapur. That's where I studied and then I went to school in –actually, I wanted to become an artist when I was, since I was a small boy, I wanted to study art. But there were not many art schools, [inaudible] around where we lived. So I went to Pune to study in one of the universities and found out that they only had [inaudible]. That's not what I wanted. So I studied for one year, especially drafting. Then I came back home and then went to nursing.

KVR (1:30)
Well, I think nursing is one of the good because we can make some money. Not many artists make money. You see a lot of starving artists. So that way at least I can fund myself, you know. So that's basically what my art experience is, you know. I couldn't– then while I was… then I worked as a school nurse, both in Andhra and Bangalore. As a school nurse, I had more opportunity to teach the children the art which is whatever I know. Plus I used to take them to the public examinations. And I did some public examinations. India has the opportunities where you can do it yourself and then write the exam and have the maybe week's examination you can write, and then they give you a certificate. So I did some and I used to take the children to that kind of– so I've enjoyed working with the kids and I’ve enjoyed art ever since I was a small boy.

IS (2:40)
What other interests did you have growing up?

KVR (2:42)
Photography is one of mine. Humor. I will always tell jokes. I have over 400 joke books. And as a nurse working in a hospital, I worked in the mental health hospital, mental health floor. So a lot of people are down, depressed, and you know, and nothing to look forward. So when I go there, I've always made them cheerful by using some humor. And all of a sudden you see, they're telling their jokes too. And so, I use a lot of humor.. humor, photography, art. These are– and then I've always liked to use some culture that I came from with the children. So a lot of you guys have grown up here and you have no idea what, where we came from. Because you have not seen the culture. You see, you know, when we have Diwali [??] and all, that we everybody dress up and come there, their dances and that, but that's a part of the culture. Then I decided, well, I want to show a little more than that. And about 20 years ago, I started showing Indian movies. I started with my group here.

KVR (3:54)
I started an Indian association in this area. I was one of the first ones who was very instrumental in starting this India association. Now it's grown to be quite big, you know, and when– I felt the children should have, you know, pretty soon they're growing up, they go to college, and they have their own homes. I think we need to give them a little bit of culture for the children. So then I brought one movie, and I showed here, and it's packed, everybody likes, especially children, you know, because they were used to dancing and they know. So I looked at children and said, well, I should continue to do this.

KVR (4:43)
While I was doing this then people from Kalamazoo College club [asked] can you do it for us? Then I started there. Grand Rapids club called and says can I do it for our club? Then Lansing called, can you do it for our club? So I started doing it everywhere else. Now not only the clubs, then we started doing to the public, you know. So some good movies comes, I still rent a movie and put it in the theater and show to the people. That way, it is not done– the first, those three hours that they are watching Indian movies, two and a half to three hours those three hours are for the kids to be in India with their own people. Because they're watching Indian movies, and the Indian people are there. So it is like being in India. And it makes me so happy to see this kid, then they come back laughing and you know, they like it. Sometimes I talk to the children and it was wonderful to see them getting a little bit of culture I was able to provide them. IS (5:45)
And were there any significant events that influenced you when you were younger?

KVR (5:51)
Basically, my father was a mason and my brother was a mason, and basically something that influenced me is, basically when I was growing up in the schools, I wish I had more art supplies where I could– we didn't have art supplies, you know. And as for the influence is concerned, basically, I look at the cinema posters and then copy them you know, take a pencil and paper and you know kind of sketch them and copy them. Those are mostly that really brings me to a bit more art, provide more art and all that.

KVR (6:40)
Plus, growing up we see a lot of color, color, color. So the color really influenced me… what we could do with the color and especially whenever you see the ethnic people, ethnic people use more color in their art, compared to people from here, people from here OK, now, now, even in the houses when you go there, people don't use whites anymore. They’ll use white, but eventually it’s changing, younger generation, changing into different colors. Each bedroom is a different color, kitchen is a different color. The younger people are changing the colors, in trading to see how the color comes in, so that's how I...

IS (7:24)
And are you mainly a self-taught artist?

KVR (7:29)
I'm self taught artist, but about… after I came to the United States, we moved here in 1972. Then I wanted to go to the art school just for, not for credit because I'm a nurse, not for credits, but I just wanted to go learn from other teachers. So I took about 50 hours not for a degree, for fun, and then I came across other people, what they were doing, you know. I've enjoyed the schooling. At least you get the basic, like art history and things like that you can learn some basics from that, but basically self-taught.

IS (8:13)
And was there a specific person who inspired you to go into painting or inspired you to go into photography?

KVR (8:20)
Really because as far as the painting, I've always enjoyed reading about Michelangelo and then DaVinci. These are the three that I've really enjoyed reading about them, but they're very high tech artists, you know, I mean, they're not something that you can learn from, you know, but I always admire their work because their religious work that they have done.

IS (8:53)
What’s the best piece of advice anyone has given you?

KVR (8:56)
Practice, practice, practice, practice. Any– In India, this is what I tell them. In India we have, some people taught monkeys to paint. You’ve seen and you’ve probably heard the monkey use the brush, monkey, you know, they're very expert. And sometimes you see elephants to paint, you know. So when the elephants and monkeys can paint, we can paint too. There is nothing called “this is the way you have to paint.” You know each one comes, now I'm surrounded by 40 artists, each one has a technique to you know, they can double up on it. So the best thing is, whatever you have in your heart, you paint it and some people may think it is not a real art. But who decides which one is real art, which one is not? Because you are an artist, you are producing and what it means to you, you're painting this. So the best thing is practice, practice, practice, practice.

IS (9:56)
And when did you make the decision to solely focus on art?
KVR (10:04)
Well two years ago, Richard Gere... he's the guy that was talking to an Indian, what you call movie stars, and they were talking about AIDS in India. Then when he was talking about AIDS in India, it was new to me because when we left in 1972– I'm a medical person and so we've never seen a virus. All of sudden I see what is happening in India. So I decided I would go to India that very next day. All night, I couldn't sleep. I got up in the morning, I told my wife, “Let’s go to India.” She said, “For what?”

KVR (10:51)
“Well, India, they're having trouble with AIDS, so let's go teach them.” And she said, “You go, I'll stay here.” So I went to India. I took video activities and this and that and all that. Went village to village, I used to go there and teach people. I put a big tent and, you know, show them the movies, somewhat help, if you tell them dates, nobody would come. Because people are upset, afraid to even to, you know, listen about that, you know. So I used to tell them, I'm coming there to teach them, I mean talk about health. And then people come there and then that's the time. Then I take a doctor with me sometimes, you know, then ask him questions and answer how to improve their immune system. And then I decided that's the time I'm going to retire. Because I'm not, I'm only 60 at the time and decided, OK, I would retire and then do this public health work, you know. Then what would I do the rest of my time? Here, I'm always into art. Since I'm always into art and I'm framing myself. So I decided I’ll open a frame shop and then be with the artists. I would not do it by myself, I had to be with the artists so we all can share the same wealth of experience to each other, you know. So that is how I started the whole thing here and that's how I happened to be full time doing the art.

IS (12:16)
And why did you choose photography or painting specifically?

KVR (12:20)
Photography is something that you know, years ago, when I was in Nepal, we bought a little camera. And I'm always interested in photography. Why, where? I have no idea, but I'm always interested in filming culture, which has something to do so with what people do for a living and nothing to do with the– you know India has a lot of poverty. You know, the beggars, poverty, no no. That's, I never want to show that, but I have a lot of people with culture, like clothes, turban. So when I go, you know, Rajasthan is one of my favorite places to travel because people wear their clothes and beards and older people with wrinkles and all that. I mean it's intriguing to see they bring the wealth for artistic look for me. So then, of course after coming here you have a little more money than back at home. So then I started buying cameras and my son is into it and I'm into it. So one thing or the other, that I got into this photography, you know, but I love it. Between art and photography, there are two different ways. Art, I’m doing a different type of work. It is mostly abstract art I do, not a real, painting people and all that. I use color, mixing color and all that. And I do it in an abstract way, but when it comes to photography, it's real. And real, you’ve seen some of my work here and they all have to do [with] something cultural that’s showing how people look.

IS (14:06)
And you chose painting. Why?

KVR (14:10)
Painting again, you know, after coming here I've seen a lot of people paint, paint, paint. Good old days, we didn't have all that. Children, we didn't have any art materials to paint. And here, after coming here, why not? Again, monkeys are painting and elephants are painting. Why can't I paint? So [inaudible] I paint but again, I do not use any brushes. I do not use any specialists. I do not use any of it. Basically pull and manipulate with my hands so that color can mix by themselves. I don't think any of the artists that are doing here because most of them are do– they, they do wonderful work here too. But they try to use their brush and mix the colors to manipulate, you know. But I never mix it. It mixes by itself. But only thing is I kind of manipulate with my hand, but then I know where to put what color and the way that I wanted it. So that's how I started the painting.

IS (15:13)
And in terms of your photography, where have you traveled?
KVR (15:17)
Well, India. Mostly in India, Mexico, and of course the United States, we traveled. But there is not– here also, we have a lot more art to show. But we have much more culturally coming from back at home because it reminds me of home. When I photograph, I'm only photographing –not only, but most of the time photographing, you know, as a child, what I saw, what I see, again, even though I'm about 66 years old, it's still when I look at those pictures that I grew up with, and then it reminds me of home, reminds me of my childhood.

IS (16:00)
Is there any research process or any way you figure out what you're going to paint or what you're going to photograph? Or is it just spontaneous for you?

KVR (16:08)
Spontaneous. I just, no research at the time. I would love to photograph older people, because they're not going to be there. You know, especially older people from Asia. Because we, the older people from here, they're in nursing homes, so they sit down. Here, they’re [in] plain regular clothes and walk around, but for us, older people that [are] living with us, they leave a, what you call, an era with us. So therefore, I would love to photograph older people [inaudible]. If I were to do...

IS (16:46)
And which artists do you draw inspiration from?

KVR (16:49)
Well, Michelangelo and DaVinci, these are the two. But recently, it’s again, I was talking about Picasso. I really, I mean not that because I admire his work, because he's tried to change the structure of the real art. I mean before, in Europe, they used to do certain art. This is the way it has to be. And if you don't do this, you're not fitting it. But he came and changed the whole perspective of the art. Why can't you do this? Why this way? Why can't you do this way? Now I see more and more younger generations are following that and it's pretty intriguing to see.

IS (17:36)
And can you tell me a little bit about the common themes or motifs that are in your artwork?
KVR (17:42)
Well usually my artwork, especially photography... I mean not photography, on art. I want people to figure out what is in it. What you see, many times, is not what I see. I have a theme that I do. OK, then when you look at it, you said, “Oh, this is not the fish, I see a person here, I see a dog or a cat here.” So I want the people to look at those art and figure out basically, what you see that I don't. So I wouldn't say, that's what most of the time I try not to title them, because I want you to figure it out. What is in it, you know?

IS (18:29)
And in terms of the cultural symbols you're talking about, or cultural things you portray, what do you lean towards when you choose someone to photograph culturally?

KVR (18:39)
Especially the clothing, the way they look. I'm not looking at, I'm not looking at– suppose I'm taking a picture of you. I'm not looking at how– it's not that you're looking at the camera and smiling and all that, but I want you to be as you are. And so that is much more for me, to take pictures, rather than dressed up in a three-piece suit, and sitting in front of the camera. That, I try to stay away from that. I want them to photograph in their own environment.

IS (19:19)
And what do you usually want viewers to take away from your works?

KVR (19:23)
To take with them?

IS (19:25)
Mhm. Once they view it.

KVR (19:27)
Well, take with them is basically culture, what I see. And like the other lady was talking about, their children are afraid of [inaudible]. But for her, it's real because she has seen it, you know? So I want them to see each culture has a different, people look differently. People dress differently. And the way we move, the way we eat, y’know. So therefore I want them to take it and accept it as some, you know, culture that came from, you know, especially Western culture. Unless you travel, you don't see that much of Eastern art and whatnot. They see but they have no idea what they're looking at, because they've never been in that part of the country. So I want them to take it as it is and enjoy, you know, the value of the other people from the other countries, you know. Other cultures.

IS (20:31)
And can you tell me any current projects you're working on or where you're looking to go with your art?

KVR (20:35)
Usually not, but I was hoping I will go back to India. You know, I wanted to go back this year. I didn't have a chance to go because the winter is already here. So when I go there, I have some projects that I want to do. Mostly I want to go to the marketplaces. Marketplaces, you see all kinds of people there, especially when Rajasthan area, there's cattle selling. And they're all kinds of, people come from different different villages, you know, and they dress up differently. Every year, in the month of October, November, the photography issues here, they all were portraits of that part of the country. Because many artists go there, many photographers go there to photograph that kind of market. Marketplace is one of the best places where you can see people in their own attire. They're not dressing up for like [inaudible], they're not going to temple you know. I love to go to the temple too. But coming from South India, we have a lot more temples. But going to North India there's a lot more color in the northern part of India than in the South. So I’d love to travel to North and take some pictures of people in the marketplaces.

IS (21:53)
And how and why did you come to the United States?

KVR (21:56)
That's a long story. I've always wanted to go to some country besides India. When I finished my nursing, they asked me where I wanted to work. And I never wanted to work in India, I wanted to work in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Nepal. So, with all those three, of course, we have choices where we can work, because the church organization. So they gave me Nepal. So I worked in Nepal. Then I came back to India, and I worked in India too, but I want to always explore what is in the other side of it.

KVR (22:31)
So I have a friend here. Then, of course, being a nurse is easy. In those days, in 1972, I came here, easy to find jobs. I came into this part of the country, to a small village. I'm not in a big city, you know, where I was about 12 miles from here. It's called Berrien Springs, Michigan, a small little town, little village actually. And I came there because there’s a university, easier to send the children to school and all that. So, that is we have we have had to come into this place. But I always want to explore to see what is in the other side of the... So if I want to do, now I built a house in India because these kids are there. I want them a good home. So for these orphan kids, I built a home. But right now nobody's staying in that house because they're all in the boarding school. So when I go there, I can spend more time with them. Because town that we are in, we don't have motels and hotels, small town, you know. So this way, a lot of people like you want to go there [inaudible], and they have a place to stay. So, putting it in the mind, I built it in such a way that all the western commodities, like basically, you need nice place to sleep. You need a nice bathroom facilities and shower facilities and all that, especially for our younger people who are going from West to East, no problem. They can take care of them, but going from West here, they need comfortable place, so I built there. So hopefully I want to spend a little more time there.

IS (24:17)
And what are some of the initial struggles that you faced coming to the United States and staying here the first few years?

KVR (24:24)
I don't know if we really [had] initial struggles. When I first came in here food was a problem. After coming here, food, we couldn't eat. I had a terrible time adjusting to the food here. Of course, we do, in India when we go north, south, east, western, even when I went to Nepal, I had a terrible time. Knowing I'm not very good at eating spicy food. So plus, also, when you come in here, they serve pork, they serve this. I mean, we're not used to that. That was one of the biggest problem, I still have a problem with that. The food was one of the biggest problems, you know. And of course, work is not a problem because as soon as we came, we had a job here, job brought us here. Not like now, you know, good old days so it was much easier for medical people to come into the, you know, and find a job. Now it is very difficult to find a job, even the medical people, you know. So that was never a problem. But, you know, those days we don't know how to drive. You know, all these things. You have to learn one by one. And so those are some of the hardships we went through, but it's OK, compared to what the young people are going through now.

IS (25:40)
And was it difficult to get your– once you started producing your artwork, was it difficult to get it out to viewers here in the United States?

KVR (25:47)
Not really. You see, when I paint it, I'm not painting to sell it. I’m painting it for myself to enjoy. And I see people come along and say, “Can I buy this? Can I buy this? Can I buy this?” And so then a lot of the money that I sell it, it goes to the orphanage. You know, for somebody to come and say, “Look here, I want you to, you know, frame this picture.” Or, “I want to buy this.” I said, “OK, good.” But, you know, sometimes I don't even charge them and I said, “Give me a donation so I can use it for my orphanage, for my kids.” So that is when I painted actually, not in mind that I would sell this for thousands of dollars. And I have no, basically I do it because for fun for me.

IS (26:44)
And when you first began what was the response from viewers to seeing your work because South Asian art isn't typically big on display, being displayed here in the US?

KVR (26:56)
They’re not. So therefore, a lot of times in– recently I had a show. Name of the show is My Indian. That's what the name I gave. Now, everybody dressed up in Indian clothes. And then because we are trying to show the culture part of it. And then we had Indian food, snacks provided there. And we had almost a couple of hundred people came to see the show, but it's on My India. The pictures that I portrayed there, I put it there, are ones that I took in India. That way I'm still again showing the culture people have not seen and the village scenes of the people, the way they dress up for knowledge is an excellent experience for them. And a lot of people come in so how nice it is and the newspaper, all here and there. And so therefore it is a good response.

IS (27:54)
And what do you hope to achieve with your artwork?

KVR (27:56)
Just have fun. For me it's more fun. At the same time, I want people to see what we do. It is really not that this is the way I'm looking for this. I want people to see, learn a little bit from Western from the, from the East, you know, how people look, what we do, what– as I say earlier, not too many people from East are recognized, you know, and many times what happened, many of our people paid for the keep it for themselves. They don't explore, they don't show to other people at all. You know, I always tell people to become a part of the Art Association. That way, you can be part of a show [inaudible]. And if [inaudible] a lot of good painters, I'm sure a lot of artists, you may come across, they paint but they keep it at home. But you need to bring it out and show it to people, you know. Because we, our people are very creative and creative with jewelry, with painting, and with art. Anything else, keep exhibiting, show it to people.

IS (29:14)
And what do you believe is the future for South Asian art in America?

KVR (29:20)
Well, more and more younger people are coming. And more and more people are traveling. I hope to see more, you know, people bring work with them, their creative work with them, and continue to exhibit, continue to see, let other people see what you have done. You know, talent you have, and and be part of the– because we can be by ourselves. Be are part of the art group that we have here, wherever you are. And at least people will know who you are. Right here, everybody knows I'm from India. And my work is a little different than the other people. But still I’m a part of this, this 40 people that are here, you know, so we need to be we need to infiltrate, infiltrate ourselves into the community.

IS (30:16)
And what would you like future generations of artists to learn from you? What advice would you like to give?

KVR (30:22)
Practice, practice, practice, practice. That's all I could say, you know, the more you do, the better you get. And if you don't know, sometimes you know, go take some classes. And especially, I was talking to some people who are retired. Today, I was talking to one of my friends, “I don't know what to do when I retire.” You know, there's plenty to do when you retire, especially future younger people who are coming there, and they're very creative compared to older people like us, you know, And, you know, at that time, so I was talking to some, when you take when you know, when we are children, when our children was children, we didn't want our children to take the camera and use it because we are afraid it may break it. Not anymore. We need to give them the cameras. We need to give them the you know, the tools, so they could come up with– recently, it was [inaudible] see somebody came from Chicago bought a picture of mine.

KVR (31:20)
I was not here. The secretary called and said, “So and so is here. They want to buy your picture.” I said, “good.” So we told them how much it is and they bought it and just before they bought it, I want to talk to the person. Called him on the phone and I said, “You know, most of the time I don't sign mine because I didn't sign my pictures and I hoped the one that you bought it, I signed it.” He says, “It's signed.” “Can you read what it is?” “It says Surekha.” That’s not me. My granddaughter. You know, that's her picture. She's the one who painted that picture,16 by 20. She painted, they bought her’s, and she's only, what? 14 at the time. So you can see, they're very creative, younger generation is very, very creative. Best thing is keep doing it, keep doing it, improve, improve, improve. So, I mean, I thought I was so proud. It is my work, they bought it. It's not my work, it’s my granddaughter’s work. [Laughs]

IS (32:21)
Thank you so much for interviewing with us.