SAADA

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
friends, people, queer, india, question, identity, speaking, talking, moved, indian, dreams, parents, hindi, feel, south asian, english, family, community, started, celebrate

00:00
Ishita Mehta, my pronouns are she and her.

00:03
Awesome. And do you identify as part of the LGBTQ community?

00:07
I do I identify as queer, but bisexual slash pansexual.

00:12
Okay, awesome. And what is your ethnic background?

00:15
I am South Asian from India, and mostly it was rock. But

00:22
I was wondering where were you born?

00:24
I was born in India in 95. Almost forgot my birthday.

00:32
Yeah, cool. And so we're gonna hop right in then. So the first question I'll be asking about is about family background and growing up. And so what do you remember about growing up in India and your family and things like that? What are some stories or feelings that you remember about it?

00:50
There's so many to pick from. Yeah. Yeah. So I think growing up the first few years of my life, we moved around a lot, because my dad worked as a civil engineer. And then after, like, once I started school, we decided to, you know, settle down. And so I grew up in the bog, mostly, and my dad would commute. So a lot of lot of interactions with my mom and my nanny, and every summer or so, we would go to Secunderabad, where my mom was born, like, where her onset of the family was. So, yeah, we moved her, like, my experiences are just between those two states. And, and yeah, I mean, you know, I growing up, I lived with my, like, it was four of us, mom, dad, my sister, me, and then, you know, my nanny also joined. So a lot of the memories and stories I have, are shared with, you know, my family. Let's see going to school was so I moved here when I was 13. So I left right before the state boards and right before school was gonna get really, really stressful, right? And yeah, one of the reasons you know, to move here also with for my parents was to give us a better shot or education, because they felt the sting of that, you know, in India, both of them wanted to keep, you know, studying more, and they didn't have that opportunity. So they wanted to listen, and you know, it's been really successful. So I'm, you know, like, forever grateful to them about it. And my school expenses were okay, I got bullied a lot here and there, I don't have, I was also a teacher's pet. So I have like, very good memories, like a lot of positive or negative, it just kind of goes yeah, I love my time in India, I think the person I am today is, you know, where I grew up, and what kind of family I was surrounded by, you know, we have a lot of extended family. So all the festivals, everything and we were just always together. So I have a lot of memories with like specific cousins and aunts and uncles. So that's always, that's always really beautiful. And moving here, it was the same experience, you know, the my, I also have my extended family here. So same thing, you know, every festival everything. I'm talking about family, so I never felt like I left too much of India behind to the Sikh community. At the same time, though, it was it was interesting to see what aspects of Indian culture the basic community here celebrated and held on to the those were sometimes in stark difference with what my cousins and you know, as opposed to doing, India, you know, there's like this time capsule in a way, like a lot of my great aunts and uncles moved here in the 80s or 90s. So what they celebrate about being they see or what they enforce, in terms of culture is, is through that time capsule. So yeah, I don't know. That's a lot.

03:49
Yeah, no, that was perfect. And so I'm curious about what your dreams are, when you were younger, did you have anything that you wanted to be or that your parents were telling you to be or anything like that, like, did you have any? What were your inspirations?

04:02
I think most of the dreams were centered around career. I really enjoyed art I was I really always wanted to get into it. I don't remember wanting to pursue it professionally. But I definitely had the dream of like always being active in creating art in our community, things like that. They didn't want me to become a doctor that was that was a gift. I think they started I don't think it was like oh, you have to do this. It was more like you know, I really liked the sciences and in the math so they were like this you like this and the best option for you is to be a doctor like if I wasn't excelling in science and they would probably be like okay, you know, go some other way finance whatever. But but they saw that I enjoyed it and I excelled in it. And it took I think it took going out on my own once I entered once I started college or actually, you know, even just being in high school here to say, I know pre med is not for me. But I also know that I want to go into the sciences. So it always took a little like pull and push of, okay, I need to figure it out. I'm just going to tell them this, but I still need to figure it out. I think that story is really, really common across our community. So yeah, yeah, my dream of, you know, being an artist, not honestly, not professional agents would be too much. But just, you know, I think that is a dream I still hold on to and you know, work with, I don't think that's, like, thrown away or anything. My dreams now are changed a little bit, but not really. They've gotten more specific.

05:48
Awesome. And so to segue a little bit into more growing up, I know, for me, when I was younger, maybe like eight or nine, I used to go to my friend's houses, and I would end up playing with their Barbie dolls all day. And then my dad would be like, you know, a little bit confused by that. Were there any early signs about your identity or sexuality or anything like that when you were younger? That's

06:09
a good question. And I've tried to, like poke at my memories to see, I really found anything. And maybe it's credit to that I'm bisexual, so I can pass as straight. So ever felt out of place? In India, at least, or maybe I'm just not remembering, you know, any of that properly. I haven't. But I have vivid memories of that in high school where I had really close friendships with women. And it was something like it was just like, Oh, your friends, you know, you walk home holding hands often, but you know, that's just what friends do. And that's, that's how I thought to you know, so it wasn't, I think, until later on, once I started to, you know, explore my sexuality to myself that I could look back and be like, okay, yeah, these memories, these experiences were should have been, I should have been, but led to where I am. Not met as a kid.

07:10
Awesome. Yeah. And so that's, that's a good segue into my next question. So you were still you it took you some time to explore your sexuality by yourself? When were you first aware of your identity or any, you know, maybe a confusion or a bit of, you know, around,

07:27
I would say, like, freshman year, sophomore year of college, I pretty sure I started coming out to my friends, the summer of freshman year, I want to say I was it was interesting as I went to college, and the like, you know, I had a mentor as everybody does, like peer mentors. And they were like, well, what do you want to do, what kind of communities you want to get into? And I'm like, you know, I'm a queer ally, I want to be hands on, I want to be in the community. I want to do as much as I can. And my mentors also queer. So he's like, I got you. And being part of that community for like, a semester. And like, I think, I think there was a reason I was wanting to be here so badly. So that was, I did struggle with embracing bisexuality, because it was, am I really, am I really gay, right? Because I feel attracted to, you know, not women, and, you know, non binary and binary genders. So what, what does it really mean? Am I it was a lot of, Am I just pretending? Or am I actually gay? And it took a lot of unpacking what gender is the gender spectrum is to fully, you know, bring that full circle, and say, Okay, now this is what my sexuality and like pansexuality looks like, and feels like. Yeah, but it took a lot of back and forth. And sometimes, I still mean like, Am I just do it? Even though I've had, you know, many relationships with women. I'm still like, do I need to tell people? I don't know. It's,

09:01
ya know, it's definitely the same for me. It's, it's a whole process. And I'm curious about you. Were talking about how you began coming out to your friends, what did that process look like for you?

09:10
I was lucky, I was surrounded by a lot of queer friends and people because I went to Loyola. And even though it's, it's surprisingly, it's like mostly white school. But, you know, there's like an active queer community there, which also ends up mostly white, but I was lucky enough to have and met people who are, you know, queer and trans people of color. They already had a safe space to come out to my friends and almost have this and, and it was just embraced and celebrated. But I think it took me a couple of years to come out to my straight friends and my basic brands. And I didn't know how to do it properly. So I would just like throw it on them. Like one of my friends slash acquaintance we were walking between classes. We were in the same class, we're walking between buildings. It's really crowded because you tried walking and then just randomly in like the three minute walk, I'm like, Oh, by the way, and by you know, I'm, I think I'm dating, I might start dating or he'll remember if I already had a girlfriend at the time, but you know, I'm by and she was given like a minute to respond I wasn't. So the way I came out to my other friends. It wasn't I just didn't know how to give them space. It was fine. I know, I did it in very constrained manner. So I could like tell it and then run away. So yeah, but with my queer friends and community, I think it was much, much more just relaxed and celebratory.

10:40
Oh, that's great. Did you feel that you tended to gravitate towards queer people of color when you were able to listen to it was mostly white?

10:47
Yeah, I think so. I either, like queer people of color. And then I was part of this community. It was a it was a multicultural department. So it was that so I obviously met a lot of the new batch of people. Every year, I met more and more people of color, I met more frustration. And so I always had access to people. So yeah, I definitely found myself just like being active and you know, organizing events and spending a lot of my time within that. My friend circle close friend circle was mixed, I would say, between between the two. I did have surprisingly though, after like a decade, not a decade, after five, six years of you know, leaving college and then being in like my late 20s, I have only a couple of gay friends. Straight like the friend circle. Most of my friends now are the friends I have had for like a decade, right. So those are the friendships I've held on to the lot of effort that went into it. I ended up losing a lot of the queer friends I had made in college, which is kind of sad. It still is. But that's just how it turned out over the last few years. But ya know, definitely in college, I had a strong group.

12:08
Do you think it was the distance that caused you to lose those friends? Or did you guys just go different directions?

12:14
I think it was the distance because I moved back to the suburbs after my undergrad, so I didn't have access to them anymore. It'd be like, Oh, no, we're making plans. We're going this morning. I'm like, I can't, I just can't calm. And so it was, I definitely lost a lot of people because I just distance. And I think also like my internalized homophobia and by phobia meant that I would self sabotage those relationships, right? Because in college, it was easy to hold on to them, you know, we're here we're together, and to be hanging out with those friends, right? It's safe to do that it's safe to be shown around with them, etc. But moving to the suburbs, now, it became difficult to do that, because I'm living with my parents. And even though I'm out to them, they're not not terribly, like encouraging. So it became a lot more effort to sort of face your own homophobia and then hold on to those friendships and put a lot of effort into those friendships. I would say it was like it was definitely goes to.

13:20
Right. Can you tell me a little bit more about your process of coming out to your parents and how that was different than coming out to your friends.

13:27
Same thing, I came out to my mom over the phone, because I just just couldn't fully like commit to it

13:33
right? And not ever texts to my dad. Like, it's so much easier.

13:40
Yeah, it's very emotionally charged. And the last thing I wanted to do was break down in front of her. While she was processing this, I didn't want to like, take up too much emotional space. During the experience, yeah. So I told my mom, I told my mom over the phone, I told her that I have a girlfriend. That's how I broke it to her. It was she didn't take it really well. And I didn't tell my We didn't tell my dad until like six months to a year later. And he took a different way. So my mom basically was, you know, stop it. That's, that's what it was. And she said it very lovingly. She was like, you know, out of care, you know, I care about you. And so it was it's easy to look back and say it wasn't malicious, but I don't think it ever was out of malice. It just came out a lot of, you know, care and love and but that's how that's how she was trying to protect me. Right. So that was her response. My dad was similar, you know, he said, You know, I love you, you will always be our daughter and never gonna let go of that. If you decide to be open in the community. Then he said he can't really support me like he wouldn't know how to I wouldn't have the courage to me, which I mean I respect right like this was a lot of them and yeah, I don't know, maybe the attitudes have changed now. At the time, I decided that I would give him a decade, because it's a big change. I'll give him a decade see if he come around? If not, then there's going to be a different conversation. Yeah, so the reaction was trying to protect me. I don't care. Love in their own way. I get from my end, but the experience Yeah,

15:27
yeah. And that's a completely relatable feeling. I remember, my dad had the worst reaction ever. But now that I look back at it, I'm like, that he just didn't know how to, you know, process it. Um, and I did do it over text. So that wasn't the most conducive to that.

15:43
I like tested the waters too. Because, you know, there were a lot of news on this was, I think around the same time where in India, they were talking about decriminalizing sex, marriage. And there will also be talks of that here in American news. So whenever it came up, I would like broach it over dinner, kind of like, try to get a sense of, you know, what do you think? Or tell me, you know, I'll be like, oh, yeah, these are civil rights. Of course, you know, like, yeah, of course. But it was always like, they do. Like, I don't want it in my house, just I think is common in, like, centrist liberals. That's usually the political stance of like, Yeah, that's great. But do

16:26
my parents do? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And so that's actually a really good segue into more general questions about, like, ethnic background and how that kind of interplay with that identity exploration. So do you think that besides like, you know, the surface value obvious cultural things that we just talked about, that your Indian background presented any other unique challenges? When it came to exploring your identity or feeling accepted? Even?

16:56
Yeah, I think I think a lot across the board, because like I said, Loyola, it was a very, mostly white, you know, so. So there were not even in the communities like the clubs, etc. They were meant for queers, mostly white. So it felt awkward just to be in that space. Conversations, they were having worry about, like coming out or about, about Christianity and religion. And it just, they definitely felt really fragmented, where I stood, and then it became harder, I would say, just to be with friends, too, right? So I don't know everything about this. Here's what bothers me about being Indian, and trying to reconcile your queer identity a lot of the stuff I see right now, when it comes to like celebrating being queer being South Asian is a lot of happy to go, things I'll see are a lot of the, you know, yay, we, you know, gay. Marriage is about marriage. It's always about like, no, these grand weddings. And the photo is always, you know, the two groups or the two brides or haven't really seen non binary or trans representation in that either. It was always our marriage. And it just, it messes me up so much. Because when I tell anybody like, No, I'm by Robert orfan. There'll be like, Do your parents know that? This is second question regardless, to ask, and tell. And it just, it really gets at me like it definitely grind. It gets on my nerves a lot. And I don't I haven't reconciled that at all. Because, yeah, so South Asian identity is basically just family and marriage. Like, that's what it comes down to.

18:46
Oh, 100%.

18:48
So it's just, yeah, so this is like, okay, my, my queer existence is either in this heteronormative bubble, that is Desi culture. So like, if I want to be both Indian and queer, at the same time and celebrate both, it means I have to get married. With a family, like that's what it is. Otherwise, it's nothing otherwise I'm rejecting you know, all of it. So, it's hard to carve out the space, you know, in the Indian community, and where you would be as a queer person and celebrate that, because, I mean, the South Asian being queer is also rooted in misogyny, also rooted in Islamophobia also rooted in transphobia all of those and coloring all of those are like this tightly knitted bot, because even as I talk about, you know, as a woman, I can be like, well, you know, I don't know if I want to get married or maybe I want to protect myself and my financial career and maybe to get married like in my 40s or something like that. That's treated with you know, just stigma and a lot of that's Yeah, so it started with a lot of stigma and just, oh, you're gonna be a spinster, right, just right away being like, Oh, you're not you will, we'll just basically tell you the same thing, you know, with Islamophobia and when it comes to religion, so all of those things are tightly bound, because that's a reaction for any of that. That's the reaction for interracial. That's a reaction for the Religious Action for, you know, Inter, our queer, whatever. So it's, it's not that you can address one and not address the others, because that's a consistent reaction across the board. So it's a lot of fight, I would say. Yeah, you can pick and choose. So it's bound misogyny to and when it comes to non Desi groups, even through gone honestly, like,

20:48
it's a wonderful community, I've got some great friends. But it's very surface level. It's the board is, I hope this is I don't know if he's gonna go to click on or not.

21:00
The board is very, very hyper aware of not being political and not creating any divides. Yeah, I've

21:07
seen that in the group chat, like the WhatsApp, little bio.

21:11
Yeah. And so I wanted to, you know, do this little presentation, and this little, like, workshop type thing, really small, maybe one of the potlucks and the first thing they asked me is, what are you gonna make? It was like, around identity, I just wanted to talk about my identity, which is so I guess the first step, you know, it's such a core thing. And they're like, Well, you know, I hope you don't bring up Kashmir or any of the geopolitics that are happening. Why would that come up in talking about gay men? Because mostly gay men. Identity, like, where does that and so right away, it tells me that even being queer, and all of that is tied in Islamophobia. As then if I wanted to crack the case on what it means to be clear, there's, there's a bigger fear of, oh, you're gonna crack, even open a Pandora's box. And then suddenly, we're also gonna be talking about, you know, what it means to be Muslim in India, and whether the politician stories are gonna come out, etc. And so that, yeah, that's what tells me that it's, it's, it's, it's so so on together. Yeah, so it's not. So same thing with my identity. I don't particularly come out as much, because that's not a safe experience. Yeah. 100. Right. So it's not something that even feels empowering. Yeah. As it's just, it's not going to be Yeah, it might be the case in professional which I'm out to all of my friends, I'm out to all of my professional extenders, I'm out to the life that I've built outside of my family is, is a life that I'm proud of, is that, you know, I, I am, I am happily and proudly queer. I share my mental health struggles, I share my, you know, frustrations, like my feminist rants, all of that, you know, for me in in those circles, but not so much. And I don't really know if I'll ever be in extended families. Because same thing, you know, reunions and get togethers are

23:14
like, with all the questions. Yeah,

23:17
exactly. And the questions are really just, you know, heterosexual marriage career. Now that I'm 27, the only and really question I get is, when are you going to get married? Or are you dating somebody? Which is just a slight way of asking, When are you going to get married? Yeah. Yeah. So then, you know, career really doesn't get asked about or anything like that. So already in that, just to be like, Oh, I'm going to work first for a decade, and I'm going to earn so much money before I even think about marriage, in itself is a revolutionary statement sometime. Right? So just saying that is empowering. So, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think so. I've learned that my identity is not the entire pie of my identity is not just queer identity. There's a lot more to my existence as a South Asian woman. Yeah, that creates a fuller picture.

24:15
100% Yeah, that's a great point. And so I'm curious about how your interactions and just being in the greater South Asian community has been, have you felt accepted rejected a mix of both? Like how, like, what are some, you know, things to talk about with that?

24:36
I don't I depends on what you call greater South Asian community because for me, it's insular. Right? It's my family and extended family on that I've met or it's my straight Desi friends. Or it's, you know, aunties and uncles on Instagram like, I don't know. So it depends on what greater South Asian community is. Not really sure. I think my experience my narratives of what I tell myself and what I tell others are rooted in specific contexts of family or friends or professional career. So, yeah, so my last job, I a lot of my coworkers were Indian. And and I didn't come out to any one of them, because I wasn't sure what kind of reaction I was going to get. And so yeah, that's, I think I approach South Asian community as probably mostly homophobic. And then I go from there, right? I see those people

25:37
in my house, they always like, you know, look out the window, and they could just, they're like, Oh, my God, you live right there. And I'm like, I know, it's amazing. I love going on walks on the lakefront, too. And it's such a mood booster, like, I can't even stress it enough. Like, it's my favorite thing. Awesome. So I just have a couple more questions. So this last section is just general feelings about identity and some things that you've learned to accept or feel or experience as you've grown older. And so I know personally, for me, I felt a lot of things about, you know, being gay and growing up, and also being gay and being Indian. And a lot of those are influenced by cultural things or family contexts, or even like high school things. You know, like, I'm unfortunately, I'm, there aren't a lot of Indian people in my school, but more so there aren't any people that are like me, right? So I didn't really have anybody to relate to in that way. And so that kind of made me feel limited or depressed at times, you know, just different. But it also made me feel unique. And I feel like that was like a unique and multifaceted experience I had, do you have any other feelings that you've experienced about your identity, or anything that you can describe for me like that?

26:54
I think the most Cognizant right now I'm dealing with Indian Ness in terms of how do you see you're right? That is a conversation that just won't go away. Like, I wish that wasn't a conversation, but it just, it just is forever, like how they see you are? Yeah, it's really annoying, but it's somehow become my reality again. So it's often like, you meet more people, etc. And so my, my partner program, whatever person I'm dating, moves here, right before the pandemic, she came here for our masters, a lot of our friends are also South Asian people who moved here for education have been here, like 234 years or so. You know, so their dizziness is more like, prominent, and that in language. When they are comfortable, they know they will speak in Hindi, or they'll speak English rhotic, because that's possible that you will be right. And I'll come in with my pseudo American Indian accent. And suddenly the there's like a power shift now to start speaking in English. And it's less funny, and it's just not as freeing. Like, just, it's okay, like I am. So I started speaking in Hindi and my Hindi is very free again, it's very, it's very like foreigner, you know what I like? My job is way better. Because I practice at home like I love speaking to God. So that's there, but Hindi not so much. This is weird push and pull, even with my partner where she for the longest time, we just didn't speak in Hindi to each other because it just wasn't my new role. It was hers. And so it just didn't come up until I met her friends. And I heard them speak in Hindi to each other. And it was so like, loose, like, your personality is different in different languages. So she was so much more loose, she was more sarcastic. They were just they would just have so much more fun speaking in Hindi, where if they were speaking in English, and I'm like, This is so weird. So on one hand, it's like how they see you are but for me, it's more about which language you're speaking in between them. So I don't speak Hindi with little none of my friends. It just doesn't have my personality is is what it is in English, right. Slightly different from speaking English, Marathi. It's that I think that

29:26
just I don't know. Yeah, no, for sure.

29:29
Yeah, so I started speaking in Hindi to them because I want them to continue speaking in Hindi and don't want them to switch it just because I'm responding In this American English. And, and I didn't know she was funny until she started speaking. Like Yeah, she definitely like let go more and we're casting and we're open and we're comfortable. And then I you know, and then similar, similar experiences, one of my friends. He also had recently moved to us came for his master's. So I had known him for like two years. And again, sometimes we will speak English rather and all of that, but I would still stick to English. But he would stick to his guns like it was never like we didn't code switch to talk to each other. We just talked in what felt neutral to us, and had fun with it and had a connection sort of like, yeah, that way. But he was the jockey. So it was like, that's how we switched but then he moved away came back to visit, I hung out with them just like met up with him and his friends were there. Same thing to them were have worked coming from India, one of them had just moved here. So they were all comfortable speaking in Gujarati, and I, I greet my friend in my neutral or American accent, whatever English, all of them were happily speaking with Ruthie until they hurt, like, I met him first. And then I went to them toward me. And so now their energy shifted completely, they also switched to English, and they were all just not as comfortable responding in it. And I was like, I messed up. If I had, I knew the crowd was gonna be with I would have greeted them all in Gujarati. I would have code switched before they heard me. But I didn't I didn't see them. I just saw my friend. And now the entire night was basically ruin because they didn't connect with me. Didn't ask me that many questions didn't make jokes. It was just the whole thing was ruined. I'm like, I just want to leave or I want to redo the first interaction where you can drop the so that's, yeah, that's what I'm dealing with right now. As I meet more people across the diaspora, I meet more people who may be born and raised up here and speak only, you know, in English and everything, but then somehow look down on me because I make a lot of DC jokes. So it's like, so it's, it's it the question is how they see you or, but really, it's about language and code switching. Because I've grown up here I also code switch with at work, I which echoes which I've worked completely different type of personality, different type of English, which with when I'm hanging out with other people of color, I toned down my English, you know, especially somebody who, like speak Spanish or something. I toned down my English and sort of match their level. Yeah, I could switch a lot with my language. And that interplays with, you know, how they see you or not?

32:18
Yeah, for sure. And I'm curious about your partner. Is your partner also South Asian?

32:24
Yeah, she's from Delhi. So she speaks mostly

32:27
Muslim? And how is it being both South Asian and queer relationship.

32:34
Um, it's really interesting because I this is my second South Asian relationship. First, the I've had many relationships and then any long term relations I had, were not with or with people of color, always a ticket back with other other races, but I had one South Asian relationship and that was gonna be like semi, he was Muslim. So in the beginning, I'm like, I made yesterday Muslim, we can make this work. And we did for like, a year. And then it came to talking time to talk to parents, and then it all fell apart. It was like, so much for building a foundation. Right? So that was that was that I took a year and a half break, I met her met on Tinder of all things. And yeah, it's a it's a different as Asian relationship with a woman I think. I think it's a lot more comfortable. Because you don't have to explain your feminism. Because the misogyny shared, you don't have to explain your homophobia because that's also shared. Because there's there is a nuanced there's a nuance to, I mean, honestly, growing up here or in India, and my generation, and then dealing with all of the all of the laws that get criminalized and the decriminalize and acronyms again, they're back and forth. You definitely internalize a lot of it. So I carry with me internalized racism I carry with me, forever trying to unpack that carry with me anti Islamophobia and it's easy to unpack when the other person gets it. It's not an attack, right? So if I was talking to, especially when it happens when I talk to South Asian men, and I try to talk about feminism, or, you know, misogyny in any way,

34:20
it's hard. They don't.

34:24
It just it just switches to attack.

34:27
My brother's like, twin brother, and he's like, just like that. And I'm like, it's right in front of you. Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. I'm like, you're my age. And you just can't.

34:39
Yeah, and even if you see it or not see it what frustrates me is this. We should attack mode right away and be very defensive. And so now suddenly, I have to defend that I've internalized it or I'm not internal. It's just that's really, really frustrating. Yeah. And I think I for me, it's You're in a relationship, it should be a safe space. So I should be able to share. I have internalized this very racist thing. And I'm sharing it because I know I need to work on it. Late Night, might not do that. And just in front of anybody or anybody, that's for sure, yeah. Might not be safe. But in within a relationship, I would monitor 100%. And I think it's easier to create that with my. Yeah.

35:25
That's great. I'm glad to hear that. That's awesome. And so has the perception of your relationship been any different because you guys are both the same ethnic background?

35:36
I'm not sure we're not really it's really new. And I like talking about it. But her, some couple of my friends have met her. And I've met a lot of her friends and all her friends are really chill and celebratory. So I don't think we've had any, like negative perception so far. But at the same time, like also at work I talk about or sometimes. And it's also been really positive, or just like neutral, neutral or positive. You know, I don't think we've been out and about enough to, actually we have like, even at the Pride Parade, we were, you know, holding hands and kissing, but it was also the Pride Parade. So, I don't know, I don't I don't think we've been in, in any unsafe spaces, too. Juicy. Interesting. I think we will find out pretty soon because she's moving to New York. And she will be possibly taking a place in Jersey just because of like the New York rising rents. He just can't afford it. Right now, with the first job out of school, right? So it's just not. And so she's gonna end up living in this apartment complex, where it's a lot of DC immigrants. Her work has, she has a team of 13 people. And a lot of them are they see most of them or they see live in the apartment complex that she's doing. She's like, that's a lot like that's, yeah. And so she's like, feeling very unsafe about being queer, and being and being able to explore and not exploring

37:14
or to separate those things when they live in the same complexes even.

37:18
Yeah, and having a busy roommate and the entire building. I went to see her building we got on the elevator, there were like 10 people in the room are speaking Hindi and like the most deadly accent you could think of. And I'm like, Girl, you're gonna have trouble. So the thing is, she's She escaped Delhi and her family to be queer. She was afraid of being queer in India, it isn't safe. And she's like, I don't want to jeopardize my family and their careers because of me. She's literally walking back into a wall of insecurity, the fears that she left behind, so we will find out when I visit her when she will share with me how we feel like we kind of actually went to the rooftop at our building, and we were like sitting next to each other and kind of holding hands. And we did see a lot of uncles and Auntie's staring. And yeah, a couple of times we have like, scatters in in families. We want to end on a road trip. And it was to a festival. So there were a lot like that a lot of people around every time you saw like a you know, like a family out. Like the daddy's wearing a sari. We're like, we're gonna be with kids in front of them. That is really fun. Yeah, we have, I think, yeah, I think I do. And when I did that, she was like, she's like, my heart rate, I need to sit down. I used to have those panic attacks in college when somebody and then I thought I saw somebody Brown and I'm like, holy shit. That time. Like, she kind of had TVs already won at that time. When I was with her, and it was okay. So yeah, I kinda have fun with it now, but mostly as we spend more time and

38:58
Oh, for sure. I'm awesome. So that was my last question, I think or last follow up question. And so before I get to the actual last question, are there any other topics that you wanted to cover? Or any questions you had about me or this project or anything like that?

39:13
I do have a question for you. i. So in going up my age, in our generation, a lot of our dreams are limited by what we think society will award like reward us and how much we think we can push those boundaries right. To know what your dreams are. Your collective dreams as a generation are, like really, really curious to hear that.

39:38
Yeah, for sure. So I can start with myself. So I'd say um, I definitely did choose the medical row as far as I'm, you know, thinking right now. Um, and like, I'm surprised because it wasn't informed by my parents at all. Like they're both in like, it business kind of thing like that setting. And my brother I was going to computer science setting, I think, or something he has never, you know? already. Yeah, right. But I just naturally also gravitated towards science and math. And I was good at it too. And then, as I started doing things in high school, and getting internships and doing projects with other people and realizing what I liked, Madison did come pretty easily to me, and like, those kinds of things. So the dream is definitely to see how far that goes and do all 1214 years of school. Yeah, yeah. And so, I do think that in terms of medicine, my interests are a bit more. They're not just like, general medicine, or like, you know, it's one of those basic things. I know, like, Indian doctors that I know, they're all in pretty, you know, standard practice, right? They're all internal medicine or like urology, or like anesthesiology, like that. Those kinds of things. Like, I'm I intend to specialize in like infectious disease and like LGBTQ health. So I think that's my way of integrating like, my own identity. And so like, those interests, which I'm excited about, I think. And so like right now, right, I'm doing research with Yale about monkey pox. And so I was just gonna bring that up. Yeah, yeah. And so that's pretty. I mean, the research is pretty grim. Right. But it's an exciting opportunity for me to like, also continue integrating, you know, the, the gay identity that I have with my, you know, medical interests. So yeah, and then that's me. And then I would say that besides medical, like, there was an alternate timeline in my brain where I majored in, like public policy and do something in that. Yeah, thing, because that's like less school and less money. But I'm not really sure I'm talking about maybe I'll do them at the same time. I have no idea. Like, I could double major or something. I think I was talking to somebody about that.

41:59
I friended this undergrad, master's in public health and use that to get into med school.

42:04
Yeah, that's like, that's, like, less rigorous than, you know, the pre med MCAT. Whole.

42:12
Depends on how you go into it. Yeah, that's true. I mean, only the MCAT to go to med school. Right. Yeah. Right. Adding a master's on top of it. So it depends on its, well, that's an aside, but we can talk about that offline if you want.

42:26
Yeah, for sure. Um, and then so let's say as a generation, that's a good question. I know with like, just generally, like, it's, most people's dreams are to be loud. Like, it's not so much as like, oh, I want to be a veterinarian, I want to be like, you know, a lawyer, right? Like, obviously, those are there. But it's most people I've seen connects their passion and some sort of feel to the desire to be visible or being seen for like, who they are, right. And so like, I have friends for, for years, right. And that's always been about being a woman or being non binary, or some people who are Asian. And that's like, their way of being visible is being Asian in this field where nobody's Asian. And so I think, like, pushing boundaries is a big thing with our generation, you can see that with all the things that you know, social media, and like movements and things like that, like it's all about machine lines and drawing new ones. Yeah, that's it. So that's probably the thing that kind of connects everything and it like everything stems from Yeah,

43:36
that's really exciting. Because I a lot of my dreams are connected to kind of the workspace we create for the next generation that people celebrate and creating spaces that to us feel revolutionary, but are just a given. You know, and I that's, that's definitely part of my sort of, model that even if I don't get to experience that sort of safeness in my 20s, I know people who will and that's amazing, like to go to go to prom with your boyfriend like that, to me is like

44:13
it was for me, too. I would never have guessed maybe two years ago that I would do that. But then I went to two in one week with him, which was, you know, even crazier. Because that meant two outfits. And I was like, Oh, I didn't plan for that. But yeah, so I definitely, you know, it's great to see not only the work that's being done for us, but like the work that the generations Above us are doing for us, which is you know, obviously very inspirational, even like historically like looking at people in like the 80s who paved the way is like definitely something that I enjoyed thinking about.

44:50
I just hope that it's a two way street because I know a lot of people in my generation who don't understand the trans or non binary experience are in their 20s and having Kids, there's a high chance your kids in like two decades or a decade might come out as friends. And I don't know if you have any sort of tools to deal with that, because usually a person who's going to come out and translate in life has those tendencies when they're young, like, pretty young, you know? Yeah. And so you don't really have the tools to deal with our now might not have that to deal with that in five, six years. Really worried that you know, will continue to creating an unsafe space, because that's what happens. I didn't want to bring that up. But that's what happens and queer in South Asian communities, we're just talking about family and marriage. That's all we're talking about. Like the fact that like trans kids are getting murdered across the board across all ethnicities, is, is mind blowing the, like, that's not even a part of the conversation. There's a lot of trans activists in India who are, you know, chaperoning, and, you know, campaigning for pro trans and pro gay laws that doesn't get talked about that doesn't get celebrated. So that's what really bothers me that any positive experiences are just talking about marriage, which fine, yes, it's difficult all that. But it's also easy because the structures are available, right? Yeah, that's what that's what really?

46:23
Yeah, for sure. I know, two people I am supposed to interview I think next week, I read a news article and some really famous, like, you know, new sorts of robot one, maybe it's like Washington Post. But you know, they had the big, gay, big, big Indian wedding. And everyone came and took pictures and is like, Oh, my God, this is so crazy. And then I had, like, an opinion about that article from a different source was like, why is it just when they're when they're not dating? Like, it's when they're at this big wedding. And that's when they, they matter to you. So it's, it's definitely very annoying to me, too. And I think like, you know, it's, that's where you can clearly see like, the intersection of like culture and that sexuality and those paradigms, like really, like, really interact. And I think that it takes a lot of unlearning. And I know in my generation, it's so much less about, you know, dating and marriage, obviously, because we're young, but like, you know, even people now we're like, oh, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna get married and that kind of stuff. So we'll see how that, you know, evolves. But, you know,

47:24
aliquid Menon?

47:26
I don't think so.

47:28
Okay, good. So I will share their page with you. They are South Asian, they're trans. And they also have in their family, the, I think there was a really famous activist in India. And so that kind of runs in their family to talk about that experience, not to make it about their family. And artists and their recently wrote a book about the gender binary. I will I will send their website

47:52
to you. Awesome. Yeah, I'd love that. And also, if you have anybody else that you feel would, you know, like speaking to me about this project, or anybody else you think, identifies as this, I would love to speak to as many people as you can. So definitely, don't be shy about

48:09
I can mentor from college, we haven't talked, well, maybe I can just forward this. I'll ask my girlfriend if she wants to talk

48:16
to you. Awesome. I love that so much. Okay, then I think I have just one generic, unfortunately. Last question for you. And it's if you could give any advice to young South Asian LGBTQ people what would you say to them

48:34
don't don't be limited by what your parents tell you or don't tell you like they are trying to protect you from extended family but don't let that become the point of contention. Because if you are in that space and that's all you do is like I'm fighting my parents or my parents I'm not letting me do this but it up your progress and find fighting getting out of that will be so because it's really difficult to change the mind change minds of your parents and family I would say we're young, he's like focused outward it took it took me a lot of time to learn that sometimes you have more agency and like you know your friends are professional or you know, facing out doing all that work at home will take time will might even take a decade like it will take a long long time. So don't make that your only fight. Definitely kind of spread out and fight and celebrate and look for spaces you know elsewhere. I had to choose my family a lot of my you know, friends have had to choose their family and let go of you know, before began on Golden and you know, maybe when parents and siblings and everything so that comes with tie that can

49:54
be for sure.

49:56
I'd say don't make that.

49:58
Awesome. Those are Amazing words of advice. Perfect. So that's all I have for you. Did you have any last questions for me? Or about the project or anything like that I could answer right now?

50:09
Um, no, not really. So what is? Are you gonna like post videos? How are you presenting this?

50:16
What are you? So? That's a good question. So I've been working with some museums to eventually hold an exhibition, which is exciting. So I have to continue, you know, communicating that takes a long time and a lot of money and planning and stuff like that. So right now, this is mostly just archival, like I've been I've submitted to, there's like an oral history, like society thing in Chicago, that I plan to submit all these interviews to. But ideally, that exhibition would be really cool, or some events. So I think that's what it's looking like, I have to see it. You know, how I can I make that more successful? Given, you know, timing and things like that, but, yeah,

51:01
no, I think that's amazing that you're trying to do that. That's setting your sights high, for sure. That's exciting. Yeah.

51:07
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me. It was a really great conversation. And I will definitely keep you in the loop. If I have any updates with what I'm doing with this information or need a follow up or anything like that, or just want to talk about anything like that. Yeah, of course. Let me know how it goes. Yeah. Thank you so much for talking with me today.